This episode we talked about the 1980 film The Watcher in the Woods, directed by John Hough.

If you want to follow us on twitter we are @stillscaredpod, and our email address is stillscaredpodcast@gmail.com.

Intro music is by Maki Yamazaki, and you can find her work at makiyamazaki.com.

Outro music is by Joe Kelly, and their band Etao Shin are at etaoshin.co.uk

Artwork is by Letty Wilson, find their work at behance.net/lettydraws

Transcript

Ren: Welcome to Still Scared: Talking Children’s Horror, a podcast about creepy, spooky and disturbing children’s books, films and TV. I’m Ren Wednesday, my co-host is Adam Whybray and today we’re talking about the 1980 film The Watcher in the Woods. Enjoy!

Ren: Good evening, Adam!

Adam: Good evening, Ren!

Ren: Hi. How are you, today?

Adam: Well, I’m a little bit beleagured because Suffolk county libraries are on my case, erroneously I might add, before we get a drop-out of listeners who I assume are all fans of their local libraries.

The library now offers a selection of board games, which is great. I took out Ice Cool, which is a penguin-flicking game, like a kind of penguin basketball where you flick the penguins, but better than that sounds.

But we took it out, and sadly the cards were missing, so we took it out, adapted it and gave it back. But I got a pretty sternly worded email today, there were no ‘kind regards’, it was a very curt ‘regards’.

Ren: ‘Curt regards’.

Adam: Basically saying, well, while you have returned the box of this game you have not returned all the cards and therefore it is still on your library card until you return the cards. But the cards weren’t there! Antonia agrees, we had to adapt the game.

I don’t know what I’m going to do, I’m going to try and plead my case. I’m willing to buy the library a new board game, but I’m worried that they will only accept the original cards, in which case this fine is going to go on for as long as Suffolk county library exists.

Ren: You can’t like, draw your own penguins?

Adam: It’s worth a shot, isn’t it? But they might have special stains or rips or markings, and I don’t have those memorised, I never saw the cards.

And it’s a pound a week!

Ren: A pound a week!?

Adam: A pound a week, Ren! Boardgames don’t come cheap. So I can’t imagine that Ipswich county libraries are going to get closed down ever so soon. I’m certainly not going to consider that a silver lining of Brexit, but that might at least get me off the hook. Because I shouldn’t be on the hook!

I know the more I talk about it the more it sounds like I did lose or deface or destroy the cards!

Ren: I mean, I have known you for over a decade at this point, and I can attest to our listeners that you are not the kind of person who would steal the penguin cards from a library boardgame for your own personal pleasure.

Adam: Thank you! Although that does sound like I would do it for other reasons.

That’s a bit like when you have to write an endorsement for a student or a colleague who you don’t think is the most reliable. They…turn up? They have… transferable skills? You know, they’re a person! They can work.

But yes, I wouldn’t steal cards for anyone else either. Unless someone really really needed to me. If they were like, ‘you need to steal these cards or someone will die’. But that hasn’t been the situation.

But how are you? After that somewhat defensive-sounding monologuing.

Ren: I am I believe in good stead with my local library network —

Adam: Well bully for you!

Ren: And I’m currently enjoying the audiobook of Hg Wells’ The Invisible Man, borrowed from my local library.

It’s about a man who’s invisible and tries to hide his invisibility, but then he gets too tempted by pranking people and has to run away naked.

Adam: Oh my! I remember watching that Hollow Man film, which is quite an unsavoury film. I watched it when I was too young for it, really. I was very much like if a film’s rated above my age I shouldn’t watch it, but I was round a friend’s place. I remember it being quite tawdry, and the Hollow Man using his invisibility for all kinds of nastiness, so I hope in HG Wells it’s just shenanigans.

Ren: Well, he’s a very angry invisible man to be honest. An irascible character, I’d say.

Adam: Is that like a men’s right’s activist feeling like his voice is invisble or something?

Ren: Well, he made himself invisible but then he’s very angry at everyone for not letting him be peacefully invisible. Which is definitely a bed he made himself, by long study of advanced physics so I don’t feel too sorry for him.

Adam: It does sound like he’s somewhat pickled himself in his own jar.

Ren: Indeed!

Adam: Or so to speak.

Ren: As is commonly said.

Adam: As is commonly said.

Ren: Shall we continue to today’s pickle? A pickle named The Watcher in the Woods. It’s horror/fantasy children’s film from 1980, based apparently, on a book by Florence Engel Randall, but we’re not talking about that this episode.

Adam: No, I do have here a copy of Patricia Sidley’s A Watcher in the Woods, but that’s not the right book so that’s not going to help us at all to be honest. The book I have here is about a woman watching deer, and that’s not what the film’s about!

Ren: It’s not. Also not to be confused with the TV movie of the same name from 2017, which features two famous witches, Angelica Houston and Melissa Joan Hart. But that’s not the one we’re talking about.

We’re talking about the one from 1980. Which in our increasing taxonomy of children’s horror is situated very much in the Children of the Stones/Paperhouse corner of the map, although not as good as those.

Adam: Yeah, it’s from this period in which Disney were trying to appeal to a young adult audience, trying to shake off some of the younger child associations by branching out into these live action films within Dark Fantasy/Horror.

(A clip from the film’s trailer. Narrator: Something happened in these woods. Something which has never been explained. And it’s happening again, now. Mrs Aylwood: Did you hurt yourself? Jan: It’s just a little cut! Mrs Aylwood: What sort of person are you? Are you sensitive? Do you sense things? Narrator: The past pursues the present. The reccuring dream that began as a game ended when a young girl vanished into thin air.)

Adam: There’s a tension here that’s interesting. Because Return to Oz was Disney and a few years later, and is pretty unremittingly dark in many ways. Whereas Watcher in the Woods feels to me like it’s been diluted by studio executives. It’s not quite as explicitly dark and scary as it could have been. Would you agree?

Ren: Yes. It’s kind of a shame that we didn’t get a hold of the book. I had a look and it was selling for £80 on Amazon, so I think it’s fairly rare.

Adam: If you’re thinking ‘Oh my God, they need to buy that book!’ we probably need a patron for that, to be honest.

Ren: That’s a little beyond our means! But yeah, it does feel like there are some kernels of horror in there, but they haven’t fully popped into horror popcorn.

Adam: Nice. You’ve still got it.

Ren: Thank you.

So, we start with a very shiny-looking white American family being driven to look at an isolated country house in England, which is being rented surprisingly cheaply.

And that set-up is a familiar enough trope that it’s lamp-shaded, by the younger girl Ellie who says ‘Ooh maybe there’s a ghost!’.

Maybe there is.

The estate agent explains that the reason it’s so cheap is because it’s being rented by an elderly lady who lives in the cottage next door, and wishes to make sure that ‘the right sort of people’ live there.

And, as they arrive, there she is, Mrs Aylwood, played by a 70 year-old Bette Davis, who lurks sinisterly at the door as the family arrive.

And I thought that I hadn’t seen any Bette Davis films before, but I think actually that we perhaps watched The Nanny together??

Adam: I think we did! Which was a mostly forgotten Hammer film, and surprisingly psychological for a Hammer. It’s quite a low-key slow-burning melodrama/horror about a sympathetic albeit homicidally dangerous nanny played by Bette Davis.

Ren: A fairly odd selection of Bette Davis films to have seen, but that’s what we’re working with.

Adam: And she really broods in this!

Ren: Oh yeah!

Adam: She works them Bette Davis eyes. She’s definitely one of the best aspects of this film. I think somewhat underserved, to be honest.

Ren: So the family look round the impressive old house, and the older daughter, Jan, is looking out of an upstairs window into the nearby woods, when she sees a flash of blue light, and the window cracks under her hand.

Adam May I ask, and I know this is a bit of a perennial thing with films of this period, but how old is she meant to be??

Ren Umm… 16?

Adam Yeah, I guess. She’s the most wholesome adult teenager I’ve ever seen. I think possibly even pushing 30.

Ren She’s definitely one of those 25 year-old teens of American yore.

Mrs Aylwood appears behind her and asks her intense questions like: ‘What sort of person are you? Are you sensitive? Do you sense things?’

Adam: So, Paul Mckenna type questions.

Ren: Jan asks her mother if they could perhaps find a less sinister house to rent, because she feels that ‘something awful happened here’. But her mother of course, goes, ‘Oh no, don’t be silly dear’.

But they move in, and before long we find out the ‘something awful’, which is that Mrs Alewood’s teen daughter disappeared in tragic circumstances some thirty years ago.

As they’re moving their belongings in, Jan is looking in a vanity table mirror, only to discover that she can’t see her own reflection, but after a while can see the blurry image of another blonde teenager girl, wearing a white dress and blindfolded.

And his is where I get in early with my Claim of the Week —

Adam: (deep voice) Claim of the Week!

Ren: When Jan tells her father that she couldn’t see herself in the mirror, he replies: ‘You know how old mirrors are’.

You know, when mirrors get old they stop reflecting people? That well known fact about old mirrors?

Adam: Which is why vampires can’t see their reflections —

Ren: — Cause all their mirrors are really old.

Adam: Exactly!

Ren: It’s perfectly explanatory.

So Jan’s pretty creeped out, but is settling in for the first night in the house, when a hideous monster jumps out beside her bed!!

Adam Does it??

Ren Oh no, wait, it’s just her sister wearing a rubber halloween mask!!

Adam: Aw, you Goosebumped me!

Ren: Rarely do you get such a classic example of what we in the Children’s horror trade call ‘The Goosebumps Manouevere’.

Adam: Well, it wasn’t the family dog wearing a mask.

Ren: It wasn’t. But it is the first in a sequence of jump scares hat this film pulls out, possibly getting less effective as they go along.

Adam: I got a note here that just says: ‘bolshy match cuts’. There’s some quite snappy editing, the film feels very truncated to me, but it does make for some quite striking edits.

And I think there’s quite a lot of cutting on similar shapes. Like, there might be the symbol of a sun and then cutting to a big pancake. For example. That doesn’t happen but that’s the kind of match cut.

Ren: There’s definitely a bat jump scare. I think there’s a cat jump scare.

Adam: A rat jump scare?

Ren: Maybe!

I got distracted at this point in my notes by Ellie heaving the biggest cuddly elephant toy I have ever seen to bed with her. It’s really, really big. Genuinely bigger than her.

Adam: Did you ever have any big toys as a kid? We’ll measure this on toys… I was going to say toys bigger than you but I was a prem baby so a hand was bigger than me.

But like toys that were notable for their bigness, like my brother had a teddy called Big Ted.

Ren: No, I don’t remember having any particularly big teddies. Although I do have one now, I have one of those big Ikea sharks.

Adam: What’s that?

Ren: It’s a big cuddly shark that’s about 2 feet long and very cuddly.

Adam: In the shape of a table.

Ren: Yes. Did you have one, or just your brother?

Adam: I had Imber the seal, really quite cruelly named by a family friend. I need softer toys, actually. I do have some toys and models now, but they’re all hard and plasticy. I have Amy and Jordan from the Mark Byers Amy and Jordan comics but they’re not very cuddly. I still have gooby stone, do you remember that?

Ren: No…

Adam: It’s just this good stone I found on the beach with a gooby expression. But again, not very good for cuddling.

Ren: But I think while I was distracted by the elephant toy there was something about how they both thought the other one was talking in their sleep. So who was talking??

Adam Oh yeah, I think that just passed me by.

Ren Possibly the ominous mist that dances spectrally outside the window.

The next day there’s some kid-being-creepy horror where Ellie acquires a puppy, and names it Nerak, writing the name out on the window condensation. When a local woman sees the name from outside, spelling ‘Karen’, she is clearly disturbed and rushes away home.

It doesn’t take very long before Jan has figured out that Mrs Alewood’s daughter’s name was indeed, Karen.

Lil sis Ellie wanders off into the woods with the dog, and Jan gets increasingly frantic trying to find her.

(Clip from the film. Jan: Ellie?? Ellie can you hear me??)

Jan eventually finds Ellie, but then sees another flash of blue light, and falls backwards into a pond.

Adam: And these flashes of blue light are very Star Wars. They’re very industrial light and magic style effects of the time.

One of the notes I made about the film is that it’s ‘A little fantasy thriller that wanted to be a sci-fi’. It never really commits itself but it does have these sci-fi special effects going on that to me sat a bit oddly within the ostensible folk horror setting.

They never integrated, to me.

Ren: Yeah, I’d agree. Cause there’s definitely a folk horror/Children of the Stones leaning to it, but it doesn’t commit all the way with that either.

Adam: It does feel like it’s ambivilently situated within a whole bunch of different genres and tones and never really commits to any of them.

But I’ve read that it’s a film that had a great deal of studio interference, and there’s a very interesting blog article on a wonderful old Geocities site linked to from the Wikipedia page by a film journalist called Scott Bosco who was involved in trying to restore this film for DVD and he talks about some of the scenes that were edited out.

I’ll quote this: ‘The film orginally had a different opening title sequence. A small girl is seen in the woods playing with a doll. The Watcher’s presence (a robe and camera POV) sneaks up behind the girl. She suddenly turns to the camera and screams, dropping her doll and running off. The camera changes its view from the running girl to the doll. There’s a growl, the doll floats upwards becoming airborne. It is swiftly launched against the tree where it is struck by a blue beam of light igniting it. The main titles are played over the burning doll face which melts as the credits continue, accompanied by striking Psycho-like music stings.’

Ren: Damn! I want to see that film!

Adam: I was like, that sounds awesome!

Ren: Ahh. We were robbed!

Adam: Exactly. I get the impression that the film was intended to be much darker, but Disney wimped out basically.

Ren: To their detriment, because nobody remembers this film and maybe they would have if it was the melting doll face film!

Adam: Exactly! People remember Return to Oz because of all the screaming heads and electro-shock therapy!

Disney failed to play the long game that time.

Ren: So Bette Davis appears, and it seems as if she’s trying to push Jan further under the water, but it turns out she’s trying to free her from being trapped by a branch.

Adam: Well, so she says. I wasn’t wholly convinced. To me it sounds like an excuse after your murder attempt hasn’t worked. ‘Trying to stab them? No, I was—‘

Ren: ‘Trying to free them! They got entangled in a knife!’

Adam: A bit Sideshow Bob from the Simpsons, I think.

Ren: Jan tells Mrs Alewood that she saw Karen in the mirror, and we get a flashback to the night of Karen’s disappearance. There was an eclipse that night, and lightening strikes the old church, setting it on fire. Very odd lightening, I have to see. Very alien, and not much like lightening at all.

Adam More like like-ning, because it’s only a bit like lightening.

Ren All the other kids run out, but there’s no sign of Karen.

The next day, the family go out to watch some kind of blood sport of local boys driving around a dirt track on motorbikes.

Adam: spluttering I think more commonly called Speedway!

Ren: Is this a thing??

Adam: Oh, someone didn’t grow up in the sticks. We get this kind of thing in Suffolk.

Ren: Yeah?

Adam: Yeah!

Ren: It looks very dangerous.

Adam: Well, you know (Adam does Suffolk accent) You don’t have any health and safety out in the countryside, sometimes you might lose your hand in a threshing accident but it’s all in good fun!

Ren: One of the boys they’re there to see is well-spoken boy-hunk, Mike, who’s Jan’s blonde ostensibly teen boy counterpart.

Adam: Possibly a little bit younger than Jan. But he’s no teenager.

Ren: He’s the son of the woman who was so freaked out by seeing ‘Karen’ written on the window.

Ellie calls Jan away just before a flaming moterbike that’s escaped from some hapless boy lands on the spot where she was standing. Ellie says that it was Nerak the dog told her to call Jan, in that creepy little girl way.

Adam: (dog voice) Ruff ruff! Call Jan!

We don’t hear that.

Ren: We don’t. Sadly.

Adam: So many missed opportunities.

Ren: The parents seem pretty unperturbed that their eldest daughter nearly got decapitated by a flying motorbike, like ‘huh, good thing you didn’t just die, eh?’. But I guess this was the early ‘80s.

Adam: When it was acceptable, as that irritating song once said.

Ren: Oh no.

Adam: Yeah, sorry, that one had probably been consigned to the dusty vaults of the back of your brain.

The next day Ellie and Jan go horse riding with boy-hunk Mike, and end up at the ruined church that we saw in the flashback. A man in an anorak who we’ve seen lurking around a bit throughout the film, sees Jan and believe she is Karen.

He goes and reports back to some aristocratic brandy-swilling guy sitting by a fireplace, for some reason—

Adam He’s a bit like… who was that aristocratic astronomer in Children of the Stones?

Ren Yeah, yeah. They share some ominous conversation about what happened that night with Karen. Although without revealing exactly what happened.

(Clip from the film: Dog barking. Mr Keller (aristrocratic drawl): Didn’t you see the signs? This is private property! Jan: Mr Keller! I had to see you! It’s about Karen Aylwood! Mr Keller: What about Karen Aylwood? Jan: She needs help! Mr Keller: What would you know about it? Jan: I’ve seen her! In mirrors!)

Next our favourite blonde heterosexual teens go on a date to a fairground! There’s another jump scare! This time it’s something jumping out at them on a ghost train, wooo.

Adam We don’t even get a proper ghost train sequence, we just see them finish the ghost train. If I was making a film I’d go all in on a ghost train sequence. I’d probably just have that part of the film specially in 3D and not the rest of it.

Ren The ghost train jump scare did actually make me spill my tea.

Adam Well, that is something. To be fair.

Ren: We get a nice bit of Hall of Mirrors horror as Jan sees the image of blindfolded Karen coming at her from all directions.

Adam: Is it really a Hall of Mirrors scene without a shoot-out?

Ren: I don’t believe there’s a shoot-out in Something Wicked this Way Comes.

Adam: No, you’re right. That was a pretty good Hall of Mirrors scene. A fair point, retracted.

Ren: Sadly there isn’t any carousel that makes people age backwards in this film.

Adam: Which really, the two performers playing the teenagers kind of needed. You know.

Ren: Jan goes off to confront evil fireside man, who flares his nostrils a lot and refuses to tell her anything. She then finds Tom, who’s the man in the anorak who’s been hanging around, and he reluctantly tells her what happened.

The local kids were inducting Karen into their secret society of three the night of the eclipse, in the ruined church. When the lightening struck, the rest of the them ran out in fear, but Karen was blindfolded.

Tom watched from the doorway as the big church bell fell, but he swore that Karen had disappeared before the bell hit the floor.

Adam: So this is where my not terribly exciting Texture of the Week comes in. Do you want to do Texture of the Week?

Ren: Let’s do it.

(Whistle piping, banging noises)

Adam and Ren: Texture of the Week!

Ren: (piping noises continue)

Adam: Someone take that off Ren please!

Ren: I can’t believe I only just realised I have that.

Adam: Is it a Swanee whistle?

Ren: Well, it doesn’t have the (makes a Swanee whistle noise), it’s just a tin whistle.

Adam: Where have you got that from, you scamp?

Ren: I don’t know, someone let me have one.

Adam: A foolish person.

So I really like the textures in Tom Colly’s shack. There’s a lot of dead animals, so at first you’re like ‘ooh, it’s a sinister location’ but actually he rescues them and is a kind-hearted fellow. But it had a good sense of dereliction to it, and the contrasting textures of the rough-shorn wood and the animal pelts was quite effective.

Ren: My Texture of the Week was Bette Davis’s face peering through some curling iron railings. Because she has a good craggy face and the good curly iron of the railings was pleasing.

And I ended up paying to rent this film from YouTube and got the high definition version. And after doing that I realised that the entire film was on YouTube for free, but not in high definition.

But it means that I have a high definition screenshot of Bette Davis’s craggy face through the railings that I will share with the class, and that will make it worthwhile.

Adam: Nice. I mean, I have illustrations from A Watcher in the Woods, but as I’ve said it’s not the right book.

Ren: Jan goes to Mrs Aylwood to tell her about what Tom told her about Karen’s disappearance, and we slide in another horror trope with a creepy music box!

Little sis Ellie gets possessed by something, and starts shouting ‘Need Help! Chapel! Very soon!’ they think it’s Karen talking through Ellie, but the voice is very insistent that it’s not, but that Karen needs their help.

Their mum finally finds all of this too much and tries to drive away with her daughters, but the car keeps failing. They get to the creaky old bridge and Jan suddenly insists that they need to get out.

Just after they do, lightening hits the bridge and the car tumbles down into the river, along with a significant portion of the effects budget.

That night, Ellie starts writing on the mirror in soap, unaware of what she’s doing, it says ‘do again tomorrow’.

Finally it all comes together for Jan: there’s another eclipse, and she realises that she has to gather the same people together from thirty years ago, and do the ritual again.

Adam: And there are a lot of flashbacks trying to make clear what’s been a pretty incoherent narrative to a young, confused audience.

(Clip from the film: Ellie (talking to herself): It’s nearly too late! Here it is. That’s funny, I looked in there before. It hardly ever happens you know. It hardly ever happens. Jan: What hardly ever happens? Ellie: I just told you! The eclipse. There’s lots of moon eclipses but the sun eclipse is special. Jan: What time does it start? Ellie: 12.30. Oh rats, when I did it came out elephants, not ring-around-the-roses. Tom: Ring-around-the-roses it was. Ellie: What’s wrong? Jan: Nothing. Tell Mom I’m going back to sleep.)

Ren: She gets them to do it, and as they’re holding hands a voice starts speaking through Ellie, saying that (incredulously) this person and Karen switched places in that ritual during the eclipse? and that they’ve both been trapped in the wrong dimension due to the magnetic power of the eclipse? Okay.

Adam: Have you seen Halloween 3? Season of the Witch. It makes about as much sense as the Nigel Neil written sections in that about how the evil corporation are getting their energy from a standing stone that transmits a frequency that is going to turn children into snakes and insects.

Ren: Oh yeah, that frequency!

Blue light fills the circle, everything kind of goes ‘aaaaahhhh’, Jan in the middle of the ring levitates upwards, until boy hunk breaks the circle of hands, and when he does there is Karen, standing there, still a teenager. She and Bette Davis embrace, and that’s the end.

That’s one of the ends, at least.

Adam: Well yes, have you seen the alternative end?

Ren: I saw one of them.

Adam: The one with all the special effects? That one was much better! It didn’t make a lot of sense but it was a lot more fun.

As far as I can understand it, our protagonist is transported to Karen’s space dimension, where she’s been switched with the Watcher in the Woods, and there’s this matte-painted backdrop and she’s kept within some kind of celestial prison and they have to rescue her, and then they come back.

Possibly. It was really incoherent and confusing, but it looked amazing. Very striking and vaporwave.

Ren: Why didn’t they go with that?

Adam: My understanding is that after the test screening all the assembled journalists and kids said it didn’t make any sense and they didn’t understand it. Which is fair enough, I just like films that don’t make any sense and I can’t understand.

But I wasn’t in the test screening audience, so sadly we got the more boring ending.

Ren: Did you say there was a third ending as well?

Adam: Apparently, loads of endings were… (reading from Wikipedia) ‘When the film was pulled from theatres, several new endings were penned by various writers at Disney to substitute for the original. In addition to the work of studio writers, a number of science fiction writers, including Robert Silverberg, Joe Haldeman, and the Niven/Pournelle team, all working separately, were brought in and paid for alternate endings’

Ren: What?

Adam: ‘there were "roughly 152" possible endings’

Ren: What?! What??

Adam: Because production of this film was clearly a mess.

Ren: Wow. 152, and they went with that one.

Adam: What on Earth happened in the other endings?

Ren: That’s bizarre!

Adam: I think this is a film that is more interesting to read about than to watch.

Ren: Yeah, it’s a museum curiosity.

Adam: A curate’s egg.

Or a museum curator’s egg.

Ren: Mmmm.

Yeah, so, final thoughts?

Adam: It’s not what it could have been.

Ren: They could have got a lot more mileage out of Bette Davis’s craggy face and suspicious peering, I think.

Adam: I think they could have had her be more sinister. I mean, her performance is great. She’s just very underused.

I really like some of the POV shots from the watcher, which look like they were filmed by a maniac who had snuck onto the set.

Ren: Yes, they did, yes.

Adam: But in the final version we watched, there’s not any real reveal of what the watcher is or looks like, it’s quite nebulous.

So I don’t know, if the watcher had been some kind of… creature of multiple arms and wheels, perhaps holding a camera? That would have been good.

I don’t know, I just feel like there’s a lot of potential here and it ended up being very watered-down and not especially memorable.

Ah well.

Ren: Ah well. We are trying to watch every weird dark fantasy children’s horror of the ‘80s, so they can’t all be Return to Oz, unfortunately.

Adam: No, that is very true.

So we’re hoping to have a more regular release schedule this year if we can. We both have commitments, work…

Ren: sigh Responsibilities…

Adam: I’m pretty much always doing Extinction Rebellion stuff these days. For every ill-advised action you see in the media, there’s hundreds more hours of excruciating meetings. If you think being stopped in the traffic for 10 minutes is an inconvenience, spare a thought for typing up tedious minutes from logistic planning meetings.

I still don’t think I know the credits Ren, we’ve been doing this for two years and I still don’t know them.

I’ll try them.

Thanks for listening to Still Scared, our intro music is by Maki Yamazaki, our outro music is by Joe Kelly and our artwork is by Letty Wilson. You can find us at twitter at stillscaredpod and email us at something similar… stillscaredpodcast@gmail.com.

Please leave us a review on Itunes…

Ren: (stage whispers) It’s called Apple Podcasts now.

Adam: Well, leave us a review because we’re quite needy and it’s nice to get the positive reinforcement.

And thank you! Thank you listeners, because without you we’d be just talking into the void.

Ren: Thanks for listening to us, we appreciate it!

Adam: We do. It’s a kooky concern we have here and it’s nice that other people share the interest.

Right, Ren, it’s time for a sign-off.

Ren: Right. Goodnight spooky kids, and if you look in the mirror and don’t see yourself tonight, don’t worry, you just need a new mirror. See you next time!

Adam: Bye!

Ren: Bye!

Adam: (over outro music) … doesn’t make sense.